Comments on: Why the word “simulation” is a misnomer http://raghavgupta.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/why-the-word-simulation-is-a-misnomer/ A chaotic quest toward understanding the brain Fri, 07 Aug 2009 03:00:49 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: uPgRaD3 Z3R0 0n3 A http://raghavgupta.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/why-the-word-simulation-is-a-misnomer/#comment-439 uPgRaD3 Z3R0 0n3 A Tue, 21 Aug 2007 06:32:00 +0000 http://raghavgupta.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/why-the-word-simulation-is-a-misnomer/#comment-439 "WALIAS: i.e We Are Living In A Simulation" -a simulation of what? Is this what you are talking about? http://www.simulation-argument.com/simulation.html Maybe John Lennon was talking about this when he sang "Look into a glass onion, see how the other half lives..." <i>Obviously</i>, a "glass onion" refers to an infinitively recursive silicon-based (glass-based) simulation computer. And "the other half" refers to the simulators "living" one layer up ;) The Bene Gesserits could have a field day with this new cult. I see your points... I am concerned with another cult. "The Secret", "The Power of Intention", ...Confusion over quantum theory, electo-magnitism, and the over obsession with "happiness" (Happiness Zombies). Not sure what to do about it though. I guess I will try to think positive thoughts, and it will all go away. If I do not have free will, then I could not help but comment on this post, so please forgive me. I am just part of the great simulation - perhaps a bug in the code. “WALIAS: i.e We Are Living In A Simulation” -a simulation of what?

Is this what you are talking about?

http://www.simulation-argument.com/simulation.html

Maybe John Lennon was talking about this when he sang “Look into a glass onion, see how the other half lives…” Obviously, a “glass onion” refers to an infinitively recursive silicon-based (glass-based) simulation computer. And “the other half” refers to the simulators “living” one layer up ;)

The Bene Gesserits could have a field day with this new cult.

I see your points… I am concerned with another cult. “The Secret”, “The Power of Intention”, …Confusion over quantum theory, electo-magnitism, and the over obsession with “happiness” (Happiness Zombies).

Not sure what to do about it though. I guess I will try to think positive thoughts, and it will all go away.

If I do not have free will, then I could not help but comment on this post, so please forgive me. I am just part of the great simulation – perhaps a bug in the code.

]]> By: GeniusNZ http://raghavgupta.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/why-the-word-simulation-is-a-misnomer/#comment-437 GeniusNZ Mon, 20 Aug 2007 19:33:43 +0000 http://raghavgupta.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/why-the-word-simulation-is-a-misnomer/#comment-437 Hmm I think I can pretty much disprove the WALIAS with the Doomsday hypothesis (or more precisely the indiference principle). It deprives WALIAS of its logical suport. Since Bostrom talks a lot about DDH and uses the indiference principle in his argument he would probably have to surrender the point. Quickly - 'simulation' humans get counted as potential humans (which is what you are getting at above) so there is no ability to massivly increase computing simulation power in the presence of the indifference principle - the same one he wants to use to argue we are in a simulation. Hmm I think I can pretty much disprove the WALIAS with the Doomsday hypothesis (or more precisely the indiference principle). It deprives WALIAS of its logical suport. Since Bostrom talks a lot about DDH and uses the indiference principle in his argument he would probably have to surrender the point.

Quickly – ’simulation’ humans get counted as potential humans (which is what you are getting at above) so there is no ability to massivly increase computing simulation power in the presence of the indifference principle – the same one he wants to use to argue we are in a simulation.

]]> By: Raghav Gupta http://raghavgupta.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/why-the-word-simulation-is-a-misnomer/#comment-429 Raghav Gupta Sun, 19 Aug 2007 11:11:34 +0000 http://raghavgupta.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/why-the-word-simulation-is-a-misnomer/#comment-429 WALIAS: i.e We Are Living In A Simulation. Just an acronym I coined while writing the original post. Maybe a better one would be WE-ALIAS (double entendre intended). I understand your confusion at the undue attention being paid to this topic. But the thing is, I think this story does deserve a closer look. Not because of the outlandishness of the proposal, rather because, like many other things in our world, this is something even highly rational folks can get hooked on. The arguments can be very persuasive, the logic seemingly irrefutable. This subject can definitely not be classified as science fiction yet, and possibly it never will be, since it tickles the very core of all existence. In my mind, it has all the makings of breeding a cult following, almost a new category of belief system. The nasty thing about it is that it somehow manages to intersect across all current polarising belief systems like atheism, creationism, evolution, agnosticism, religion etc. Atheist folks will like it because it inherently dismisses a god as our creator, but they will dislike it because it replaces the "simulator" with the role of god. The intelligent design folks will like it because thats what the theory says, that we are all the product of the simulator's intelligent design, but they will want to dismiss it because again, the role of god is being assumed by the simulator(who of course cannot be god). Many regular, straightforward folks who go to church every Sunday will certainly demonstrate significant indignation, that the very concept is demeaning to our existence. Each single existing group, will get divided based upon those who believe in this theory, and those who don't. You pick any current orthogonal societal divisions, and this theory can be used to create a new orthogonal division of similar class. As such, I don't expect this debate to die down soon. It will keep simmering beneath the surface, rearing its ugly head at times. But here's the kicker. As education, science, technology and awareness have been increasing, things like superstition, bigotry etc have been decreasing. But with this new thing now, as technology awareness is increasing, more and more rational people are getting attracted, and even converted, by this concept! WALIAS: i.e We Are Living In A Simulation. Just an acronym I coined while writing the original post. Maybe a better one would be WE-ALIAS (double entendre intended).
I understand your confusion at the undue attention being paid to this topic. But the thing is, I think this story does deserve a closer look. Not because of the outlandishness of the proposal, rather because, like many other things in our world, this is something even highly rational folks can get hooked on. The arguments can be very persuasive, the logic seemingly irrefutable. This subject can definitely not be classified as science fiction yet, and possibly it never will be, since it tickles the very core of all existence. In my mind, it has all the makings of breeding a cult following, almost a new category of belief system.
The nasty thing about it is that it somehow manages to intersect across all current polarising belief systems like atheism, creationism, evolution, agnosticism, religion etc. Atheist folks will like it because it inherently dismisses a god as our creator, but they will dislike it because it replaces the “simulator” with the role of god. The intelligent design folks will like it because thats what the theory says, that we are all the product of the simulator’s intelligent design, but they will want to dismiss it because again, the role of god is being assumed by the simulator(who of course cannot be god). Many regular, straightforward folks who go to church every Sunday will certainly demonstrate significant indignation, that the very concept is demeaning to our existence. Each single existing group, will get divided based upon those who believe in this theory, and those who don’t. You pick any current orthogonal societal divisions, and this theory can be used to create a new orthogonal division of similar class.

As such, I don’t expect this debate to die down soon. It will keep simmering beneath the surface, rearing its ugly head at times. But here’s the kicker. As education, science, technology and awareness have been increasing, things like superstition, bigotry etc have been decreasing. But with this new thing now, as technology awareness is increasing, more and more rational people are getting attracted, and even converted, by this concept!

]]> By: uPgRaD3 Z3R0 0n3 A http://raghavgupta.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/why-the-word-simulation-is-a-misnomer/#comment-428 uPgRaD3 Z3R0 0n3 A Sun, 19 Aug 2007 03:28:43 +0000 http://raghavgupta.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/why-the-word-simulation-is-a-misnomer/#comment-428 Very well written. I am not familiar with WALIAS theory - sounds like that fun and entertaining science <b>fiction</b> movie <i>The Matrix</i> I think we ought to figure out as much as we can about <b>this</b> Universe, instead of going off on tangents like WALIAS theory. I am a bit confused (several bits?) why someone other than a science fiction writer would consider such a theory. Are they claiming that there is another, more "real" universe that is being simulated? Nevermind, I will search and read up on it when I have nothing better to do. The closest I idea (other than fiction) that I ever came across with this idea was the interesting book by Seth Lloyd "Programming the Universe", but I did not get the impression that Lloyd felt we are living inside a simulation. He was stating that the Universe behaves as if it were a giant quantum computer, proposes a way of falsifying the theory, and explains at a high level how one might go about making a quantum computer. Very well written. I am not familiar with WALIAS theory – sounds like that fun and entertaining science fiction movie The Matrix

I think we ought to figure out as much as we can about this Universe, instead of going off on tangents like WALIAS theory. I am a bit confused (several bits?) why someone other than a science fiction writer would consider such a theory. Are they claiming that there is another, more “real” universe that is being simulated? Nevermind, I will search and read up on it when I have nothing better to do.

The closest I idea (other than fiction) that I ever came across with this idea was the interesting book by Seth Lloyd “Programming the Universe”, but I did not get the impression that Lloyd felt we are living inside a simulation. He was stating that the Universe behaves as if it were a giant quantum computer, proposes a way of falsifying the theory, and explains at a high level how one might go about making a quantum computer.

]]> By: Raghav Gupta http://raghavgupta.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/why-the-word-simulation-is-a-misnomer/#comment-427 Raghav Gupta Sat, 18 Aug 2007 22:58:41 +0000 http://raghavgupta.wordpress.com/2007/08/17/why-the-word-simulation-is-a-misnomer/#comment-427 I've edited the post above to clarify some points and also added some additional points. I’ve edited the post above to clarify some points and also added some additional points.

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