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	<title>Comments on: A definition of &#8220;language&#8221;?</title>
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	<link>http://raghavgupta.wordpress.com/2007/09/25/a-definition-of-language/</link>
	<description>A chaotic quest toward understanding the brain</description>
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		<title>By: uPgRaD3 Z3R0 0n3 A</title>
		<link>http://raghavgupta.wordpress.com/2007/09/25/a-definition-of-language/#comment-968</link>
		<dc:creator>uPgRaD3 Z3R0 0n3 A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 04:38:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raghavgupta.wordpress.com/2007/09/25/language-as-the-serialization-of-thought/#comment-968</guid>
		<description>Check out &quot;The Stuff of Thought: Language as a Window into Human Nature&quot; - Steven Pinker.

Here is a nice little video related to the book:

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/steven_pinker_on_language_and_thought.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Check out &#8220;The Stuff of Thought: Language as a Window into Human Nature&#8221; &#8211; Steven Pinker.</p>
<p>Here is a nice little video related to the book:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/steven_pinker_on_language_and_thought.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/steven_pinker_on_language_and_thought.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: uPgRaD3 Z3R0 0n3 A</title>
		<link>http://raghavgupta.wordpress.com/2007/09/25/a-definition-of-language/#comment-967</link>
		<dc:creator>uPgRaD3 Z3R0 0n3 A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 04:31:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raghavgupta.wordpress.com/2007/09/25/language-as-the-serialization-of-thought/#comment-967</guid>
		<description>If one can visualize, I am not sure one cannot think about it without giving it a name first.  For example, I can think about a shape for which I am not certain that it has a name.  It is closed, 2-dimentional, I can draw it with a pencil on a piece of paper, visualize it, measure its area, think about its relative size, ... its shape may remind me of a lake or a cloud.

“To be able to think about something, we need to give it a name first.”

... A square could be thought about before anyone came up with a name for it, just like the squiggly drawing which currently does not have a name and probably never will.

Sometimes we give names to things as a kind of shorthand.  One may think about the idea of working from home, using ones home computer - and later come up with the name &quot;telecommute&quot;, for example.  The word becomes a convenience.

We do not have a word for the person who talks really long on their cell phone in public yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If one can visualize, I am not sure one cannot think about it without giving it a name first.  For example, I can think about a shape for which I am not certain that it has a name.  It is closed, 2-dimentional, I can draw it with a pencil on a piece of paper, visualize it, measure its area, think about its relative size, &#8230; its shape may remind me of a lake or a cloud.</p>
<p>“To be able to think about something, we need to give it a name first.”</p>
<p>&#8230; A square could be thought about before anyone came up with a name for it, just like the squiggly drawing which currently does not have a name and probably never will.</p>
<p>Sometimes we give names to things as a kind of shorthand.  One may think about the idea of working from home, using ones home computer &#8211; and later come up with the name &#8220;telecommute&#8221;, for example.  The word becomes a convenience.</p>
<p>We do not have a word for the person who talks really long on their cell phone in public yet.</p>
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		<title>By: JustChecking</title>
		<link>http://raghavgupta.wordpress.com/2007/09/25/a-definition-of-language/#comment-950</link>
		<dc:creator>JustChecking</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2008 22:43:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raghavgupta.wordpress.com/2007/09/25/language-as-the-serialization-of-thought/#comment-950</guid>
		<description>Great post!

Only thing I kind of miss in it is, what do you at all consider as &quot;[human] language&quot;? I think that could help a lot on the whole quest for definition.

What I mean - do you e.g. consider gramatical rules to be part of language?

As for your remark, that &quot;Language is the ultimate compression engine.&quot;, I can agree only partly.

First thing to say, it&#039;s definitely a loosy compression; how often people run into trouble of &quot;not having enough words to express the thought&quot;?

Not only that, in my opinion, language has a (much) lower &quot;dimension&quot; than thought, so to say. Language in fact seems to me as just a projection of thought (or, since language is so often very helpful in expressing thoughts, maybe it could be called &quot;Poincare map of thought&quot; ;-)
How often it happens to you, that in evening you write down a note to yourself about an amazing idea, and in morning you&#039;re wondering what it&#039;s supposed to mean?
I guess that would be my reply to &quot;On the other hand, if the code of language does get cracked soon, will it mean that human thought is not so complex after all?&quot;

As for your remark: &quot;When one thinks hard to solve a problem, it is likely he or she uses bits of language in self-communication to focus attention on particular aspects, annotate the intermediate results, and proceed one by one onto higher level steps.&quot;
I can&#039;t agree more, and this is a very helpful point. Also, it raises 2 interesting questions: 1) &quot;Could he/she solve the same set of problems without the use of words?&quot; and 2) &quot;Is language artificial or natural phenomenon to our brain?&quot;.

What I mean - 1) Words are very helpful in solving problems; in fact, they&#039;re in my opinion brains &quot;up-to-down&quot; decomposition equivalent. [can&#039;t remember after of the following quote, sorry] &quot;Originality is to give name to things that do not have a name yet.&quot; And &quot;To be able to think about something, we need to give it a name first.&quot;
2) This question might seem weird to be asked, but why are people the only ones to use such a complex system of expressing oneself? [or, if not the only ones, at least one of very few animal kinds]
Is language &quot;natural milestone&quot; on the path of evolution, or it&#039;s artificial concept that is specific only to humans?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post!</p>
<p>Only thing I kind of miss in it is, what do you at all consider as &#8220;[human] language&#8221;? I think that could help a lot on the whole quest for definition.</p>
<p>What I mean &#8211; do you e.g. consider gramatical rules to be part of language?</p>
<p>As for your remark, that &#8220;Language is the ultimate compression engine.&#8221;, I can agree only partly.</p>
<p>First thing to say, it&#8217;s definitely a loosy compression; how often people run into trouble of &#8220;not having enough words to express the thought&#8221;?</p>
<p>Not only that, in my opinion, language has a (much) lower &#8220;dimension&#8221; than thought, so to say. Language in fact seems to me as just a projection of thought (or, since language is so often very helpful in expressing thoughts, maybe it could be called &#8220;Poincare map of thought&#8221; <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
How often it happens to you, that in evening you write down a note to yourself about an amazing idea, and in morning you&#8217;re wondering what it&#8217;s supposed to mean?<br />
I guess that would be my reply to &#8220;On the other hand, if the code of language does get cracked soon, will it mean that human thought is not so complex after all?&#8221;</p>
<p>As for your remark: &#8220;When one thinks hard to solve a problem, it is likely he or she uses bits of language in self-communication to focus attention on particular aspects, annotate the intermediate results, and proceed one by one onto higher level steps.&#8221;<br />
I can&#8217;t agree more, and this is a very helpful point. Also, it raises 2 interesting questions: 1) &#8220;Could he/she solve the same set of problems without the use of words?&#8221; and 2) &#8220;Is language artificial or natural phenomenon to our brain?&#8221;.</p>
<p>What I mean &#8211; 1) Words are very helpful in solving problems; in fact, they&#8217;re in my opinion brains &#8220;up-to-down&#8221; decomposition equivalent. [can't remember after of the following quote, sorry] &#8220;Originality is to give name to things that do not have a name yet.&#8221; And &#8220;To be able to think about something, we need to give it a name first.&#8221;<br />
2) This question might seem weird to be asked, but why are people the only ones to use such a complex system of expressing oneself? [or, if not the only ones, at least one of very few animal kinds]<br />
Is language &#8220;natural milestone&#8221; on the path of evolution, or it&#8217;s artificial concept that is specific only to humans?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: opit</title>
		<link>http://raghavgupta.wordpress.com/2007/09/25/a-definition-of-language/#comment-655</link>
		<dc:creator>opit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2007 18:07:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raghavgupta.wordpress.com/2007/09/25/language-as-the-serialization-of-thought/#comment-655</guid>
		<description>I like this - which builds on the idea of language as a tool of logic and projects a possible theoretical  program for the layout of synaptic paths.  
Have you followed the Orwellian concept of &#039;duckspeak&#039;, where a wordset is resticted and perverted to channel thought into a preplanned canalization ? This is a media concept which is sometimes referred to as &#039;Mind Control&#039; and is achieved by &#039;moving the goalposts&#039; and other logical fallacies.
 Check out my links on &#039;Moving the Overton Window&#039; and &quot;Why the right-wing gets it..&quot; if you find this concept interesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like this &#8211; which builds on the idea of language as a tool of logic and projects a possible theoretical  program for the layout of synaptic paths.<br />
Have you followed the Orwellian concept of &#8216;duckspeak&#8217;, where a wordset is resticted and perverted to channel thought into a preplanned canalization ? This is a media concept which is sometimes referred to as &#8216;Mind Control&#8217; and is achieved by &#8216;moving the goalposts&#8217; and other logical fallacies.<br />
 Check out my links on &#8216;Moving the Overton Window&#8217; and &#8220;Why the right-wing gets it..&#8221; if you find this concept interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: 27 Sept - First Look at the Web &#171; oldephartteintraining</title>
		<link>http://raghavgupta.wordpress.com/2007/09/25/a-definition-of-language/#comment-653</link>
		<dc:creator>27 Sept - First Look at the Web &#171; oldephartteintraining</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Sep 2007 17:58:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://raghavgupta.wordpress.com/2007/09/25/language-as-the-serialization-of-thought/#comment-653</guid>
		<description>[...] September 27th, 2007 &#183; No Comments  Language as the serialization of thought [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] September 27th, 2007 &middot; No Comments  Language as the serialization of thought [...]</p>
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